[UPDATED x3] Either go negative or start drafting your concession speech (w/ attack video)

All the money in the world cannot salvage a losing strategy. Right now we are cornered, we are on the defense and we have no offense in sight.

I will select three little clips I read today:  

Mayor Willie Brown:

The Democrats are in trouble. Sarah Palin has totally changed the dynamics of this campaign.

Period.

Palin's speech to the GOP National Convention on Wednesday has set it up so that the Republicans are now on offense and Democrats are on defense. And we don't do well on defense.

Suddenly, Palin and John McCain are the mavericks and Barack Obama and Joe Biden are the status quo, in a year when you don't want to be seen as defending the status quo.

Glenn Greenwald:

But the idea that Americans instinctively recoil from negativity or that there will be some sort of backlash against Republicans generally and Palin specifically because of how "negative" their convention speeches were is pure fantasy. Cultural tribalism and personality attacks of those sort work, especially when they're not aggressively engaged.

Every four years, the GOP unleashes unrestrained personality attacks on Democrats and exploits cultural resentments. Every four years, Democrats tell themselves that such attacks don't work and are counter-productive. And every four years, that belief is disproven. These "character" issues end up mattering largely because Democrats, in election after election, allow wars over "character" to be waged in a largely one-sided fashion.

And finally Jake Tapper (who has been probably the most fair MSM journalist):

Not the daily tracking poll, the actual Gallup poll, has Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., pulling ahead of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

The numbers among registered voters are 50 percent to 46 percent -- and 54 percent to 44 percent among likely voters.

Obama's campaign always said before the American people made their final decision about him, the Democrat would be judged on three things -- the VP pick, the convention, and the debates. Now two of the three have gone down, and the American people have liked McCain's stuff better.

So here we are ceding not just 10 points but a total movement of 17 points. The poll taken last weekend after the Democratic convention showed Obama leading by 7 points from that he is now down by 10 points. So McCain does have a significant post-convention bounce. To try and dismiss it or poke holes into the methodology is delusional. The race is tight and as of right now things look bleak. Whether we as Democrats like it or not the Republicans have done a pretty good job of defining the Obama-Biden ticket as out-of-touch elitist Washington insiders who are running on empty rhetoric with relentless negative ad. It does not bode well 60 days before election.

So why are we in this state in a year where we should be far far ahead by now. The reason: ineffectual campaigning. It seems the Obama campaign is stuck in primary mode. The people who elected him were informed Democrats and political activists. But this is the GE.

A very good sign that we are setting the tone of the election is if the Republicans are screaming foul...that unfortunately is not happening. Obama is reacting and being defensive. His entire interview with ABC this morning sounded like someone pushed to a corner and forced to react to all those myriad negative ads that he did not answer. His biggest mistake was to distance himself from Gen. Clark who at least made an attempt to knock down McCain's POW meme. Now he has to fight POW, sexism, maverick and reform. He cannot do that with this high-minded "issue" based campaign. The answer is a broad offensive attack plan with multiple ads by which he defines the McCain-Palin ticket, casts doubts on their character and credibility and in that way once again snatch the initiative.

The American people as Greenwald observed do not get turned off by negative ads, only the pundits do. We Democrats tend to listen to MSM pundits to our detriment while the GOP plays them like an expert fiddler. Look at the way they basically said f-you to the media this past two weeks and in spite of that had the media groveling at their feet. Negative attacks serve a purpose, it sows a seed of doubt in the electorate. If you make a long ad about how McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time, or his campaign has lobbyists, or his tax plan is ineffectual people will tune it off in less than the 30 seconds it needs to air. But if you have an ad that calls St. John a liar, or question his credibility or tell people that his VP does not speak the truth and cast doubts on their character, they will listen. If Biden goes tomorrow and launches a broad-side on McCain like Sarah Palin does everyday to Obama, the media will pay more attention to this new incarnation of Joe Biden, people will sit up and listen (but don't hold your breath it ain't gonna happen. Biden reminds me of Edwards in 2004). Will the Republicans then accuse Obama of partisanship? Sure they will. Will they accuse the Democrats of denigrating a POW? They are dong it right now. Will they accuse us of sexism? You cannot ask any question about Palin's credibility even now. But Obama has to do all that and only then will he again dictate the momentum. Is it negative? Yes it is but it is also effective (the Republicans have already said issues are not important and right now it seems their strategy is working). If he does not do that he might as well start writing his concession speech.

Update [2008-9-8 13:37:30 by tarheel74]:

It took a long while for this diary to get on the rec list. Some might call it pessimistic, but I rather raise the alarm now, have the Democratic base force Obama (we control the purse string after all) and make him listen to us. The Democratic brand is more important to me than brand Obama.

Finally for those of you who have been making a case for running on issues I have some "eye-popping" numbers for you as Greg Sargent calls it:

* On the question of who has the better plan for Iraq, it's McCain 55%, Obama 41% -- despite multiple polls showing solid majorities agreeing with Obama on withdrawal.

* On the question of who has the better plan for energy independence, it's McCain 54%, Obama 42%.

* On the question of who has the better plan for health care, it's McCain 46%, Obama 45%.

* McCain is seen as stronger on education, 50%-45%.

Obama does hold a nine point lead on who's stronger on the environment, 49%-41%. But somewhat ominously, more respondents (49%) say they'd bet that McCain will win the election than say Obama will (44%).

So in other words the SUSA Poll suggests that on the issues like energy independence, health care and education McCain is leading. Now the question is did anyone hear anybody talking about these issues during the convention or anytime before or since then? The answer is no. Yet why does he lead? Because the effectiveness of negative ads. The people truly believe that the candidate who is supposed to be running on issues is an empty suit. It reminds me of 2004 when I met many conservatives who believed that Bush will not veto stem-cell research, that he will overhaul education and make healthcare more accessible without a shred of evidence all because they believed more that Kerry cannot be trusted based solely on negative ads. Negative ads work. They are working for the Republicans and unless the Obama campaign can seize the initiative and go on the offensive this thing will go down the tubes and fast.

Update [2008-9-8 14:27:57 by tarheel74]:

One other thing, we are seeing a lot of Democrats here, on TV and also the entire media obsessing about Palin. Yes she is the new celebrity who has turned this election around. Yes she is the Republican pitbull in lipstick and the Obama campaign needs to define her fast, highlight her negative and find a suitable line of attack. But before they do that they have to do more to define and question the credibility of the person on the top of the ticket. The 90% voting with Bush and 8 houses ads have become old. People know he voted with Bush, people know he is rich and yet he is still connecting as a maverick. The framing of the ads is not right, the main and explicitly stated question should be "McCain says he is a maverick but he voted with Bush 90% of the time..does that make him credible?" "McCain changed his positions when he started running for president for political purposes...does that make him credible?". The Obama campaign has to do more to define McCain and question his credibility and also that of his running mate. Which also means less of the "John McCain is one of my best friends" from our VP and more of "I am disappointed in John McCain's partisan and politically expedient positions". But I expect too much.

Update [2008-9-8 18:10:20 by tarheel74]:

Finally an attack ad questioning St. John's credibility. Note they use the word 'lie'. Now that wasn't so hard was it? Can we now see a few more of these?



Display:


wake up call (2.00 / 6)

time to get off that high horse Sen. Obama.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 12:45:15 AM EST

!!! VOTER PURGING/CAGING !!! (none / 0)

VOTER PURGING/CAGING: OH, LA, FL, KS, NM, CO, and NV

http://mydd.com/story/2008/9/8/12458/472 75

AND WARNING FOR COLLEGE STUDENT VOTERS IN VIRGINIA

http://insidehighered.com/news/2008/09/0 3/voting


by iamold on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:57:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This shouldn't surprise anyone... (2.00 / 1)

...I've been writing about this crap for months! Checkout my diaries (I know, shameless pimping).

But, here's my quote for Tarheel74...


Politics is a mean business, and when September rolls around in a presidential campaign, it gets mean on a level that is beyond most people's comprehension. The White House is the most powerful office in the world, and a lot of people will tell you that NOTHING is over the line when it comes down to winning or losing the presidency of the United States. Nobody is safe and nothing is sacred when the stakes finally get that high. It is the ultimate fast lane, and the people still on their feet in September are usually the meanest of the mean. The last train out of any station will not be full of nice guys.

--Hunter S. Thompson, quote from "Better Than Sex"


by bobswern on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:03:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wake up call (none / 0)

Maybe he can outspend McSame in Ohio, Florida, Colorado, Virginia, and Nevada by 2 or 3 to 1.

Surely, that will get the job done.


by reggie44pride on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:39:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wake up call (none / 0)

Or perhaps he could look at how the system actually works, how electoral votes are actually allocated, and put together a strategy to get enough of them.  Nah...


I am not a crook!
by username on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:59:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We are not 10 down (none / 0)

see my post at openleft for the reason why.

I live in Florida and Obama is absolutely going negative in his advertising.  The one I have seen several times has pictures of McCain and Bush.  It is a negative ad.


by fladem on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:23:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In all honesty (none / 0)

The need to be destroyed, this country is not ready for a new kind of politics.  When dealing with backstabbers in your own party, there is no time to be nice.  They need to be destroyed, we need to lie, cheat and steal to win, because the media clearly is calling anyone on their BS.  If Obamas gamble is that the American people are not influenced by negative ads, he is wasting our time.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 12:47:16 AM EST

They'll call out the Democrats (none / 0)


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:18:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They'll call out the Democrats (none / 0)

"they" - whoever they are - already do, even when we don't. So we might as well.

And when "they" do - the Democrats should attack "them" as well.


by bushsucks on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:21:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let America learn the hard way. (none / 0)

One of the reasons I'm a bleeding heart liberal is because I try to act, and judge, when I do judge, on principle.  I would like Obama, and democrats as a whole, to win the upcoming elections.  However, I hope it's not by going negative.  I don't want to win by questioning John McCain's patriotism, or attacking Sarah Palin's ethics.  I want to win on the issues.  And if this country's electorate is so fucked up, that even after eight years of being treated like shit, they'll still vote personality over substance, then fuck 'em.  Let this country rot like the Roman empire if that's what it takes for people to learn.

Yes, I know, millions will suffer the consequences.  Sometimes it takes hard knocks for people to get a clue.

P.S. I'm speaking out of anger right now, so I probably will feel differently in the morning.


by shalca on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:00:46 AM EST

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (2.00 / 3)

politics is dirty. You can't hope to win in a mud-fight and keep yourself clean. Might as well concede. Bill Clinton won twice because he was not afraid to go negative. Whenever Democrats decided to go for the high-minded crap we lost. I would rather fight dirty and win than play nice and lose. But that's just me.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:04:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (2.00 / 3)

Perhaps you can afford the high-minded bullshit. Perhaps you can afford to lose. Not me. Not LOTS and lots of other people.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:28:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not bullshit (none / 0)

It's not high minded bullshit.  The crap the republican party puts out is bullshit.  The outright lies and character assassination is bullshit.  The fact that the under-educated middle of the country thinks that is somehow important is bullshit.  The hypocrisy of the radical religious right and their war against radical religious people in the mid-east, and non or other-than-their religious people on the east and west coast is bullshit.

Fighting on principle is NOT bullshit.


by shalca on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:09:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (2.00 / 1)

I agree. The question is, how much hard way are we going to take befoer we start saying enough?
Extreme conservatism? This too shall pass.

OK. When?


by spirowasright on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:48:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (2.00 / 1)

Millions are already suffering the consequences.


by susie on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:29:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe we need millions more to suffer. (none / 0)

Maybe we need it to get so bad that revolution becomes a not-so-crazy option.  It took a sweatshop full of women burning to the ground (with the women still inside) before conservatives took their heads out of their asses on workers' safety and compensation.  It took a great depression for people to get their heads out of their asses in the 30's.  That was the last time we had a great social reworking of government (that conservatives have been railing against for 70 years mind you).  Maybe it'll take another one for people to realize how stupid their voting patterns are.


by shalca on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:30:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe we need millions more to suffer. (2.00 / 1)

You can't exactly volunteer other people to burn to death.  And besides, if Democrats are losing elections, on what alternate universe is a revolution going to happen?

Ugh.  I've been having this argument since college: "Maybe things will get so bad that___"  No.  Things can always get worse.  And they usually do.  People said that about Reagan, whose abuses nowadays seem quaint.  Francisco Franco was in power for decades, until he died.  THAT'S the norm, not what you're hoping is going to happen.


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:45:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe we need millions more to suffer. (none / 0)

I'm not actually hoping that's going to happen.  I'm hoping that Obama wins, the democrats get 60 seats in the senate, hold on to a majority in the house and all goes right with the world.  But I get so upset when I see so many people making such stupid decisions every four years.  I end up feeling like they deserve what they vote for.


by shalca on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:53:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (none / 0)

Yawn.


by reggie44pride on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:40:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (none / 0)

No candidate has ever won by running on the issues. You might as well be screaming at the waves.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (none / 0)

1992, 1996, it can be done. You need emotional hooks, but Democratic issues can be central. Many people think it is the only way we can win.


by souvarine on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (none / 0)

92 and 96 are NEVER instructive of elections. There was a third party candidate who helped to fracture the Republican and Independent vote.

In 1992 Bill Clinton won with 43% of the vote- if Barack Obama gets 43% of the vote we will lose in a massive land slide.

In 1996 Bill Clinton did better, getting a little more 49% of the vote. However Bob Dole got only a little more than 40% of the vote meaning about 10% of the vote went somewhere else in that election as well.

Now, if you are suggesting that we will win if Bob Barr or some other fringe conservative candidate gets 10% of the vote I of course agree with you.

However, if you think that 92 or 96 are in anyway instructive of a traditional Presidential year you are out of your mind.

In fact I would wager that if Ross Perot had not been in the field in 1992 neither Clinton would be where they are today... this is not meant as a knock on the Clintons, who I love dearly, but lets be honest here. Those elections were not won by a discussion on the issues. They were won because of third party candidacies and in the battle of who appeared to be more in touch, AKA "whats this scanner thingy and why does it beep at my food???"


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let America learn the hard way. (none / 0)

Running on the issues REALLY doesn't work when the other side superficially mirrors your stance on said issues. It's time to hit and hit hard.


Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. -Plato
by selfevident on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 07:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no. (2.00 / 1)

im not the best chess player in the world - but i assure you that 'going negative' won't work.  it barely worked against clinton.  not that i have a better suggestion, but im sure others do.

the press has gone hyper negative in the past week or so and i believe, that it is one of the reasons that people have gone that way.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:02:55 AM EST

Re: no. (none / 0)

hyper-negative in what way? please explain. If asking tough questions makes you think that we are being negative then we deserve to lose.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:07:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

we? (none / 0)

who's the 'we' you are referring to?  im of course am referring to the stories regarding babies, mommy wars amongst other slime i have witnessed over the past weeks.  in the race to define palin - it has had the opposite affect amongst voters it seems.

asking tough question has nothing at all to do with much (not all) that has gone on since the pick was announced.  remember the eagleson timers so many were chuckling about days ago?  

but now that the toothpaste is out of the tube (see: media failure) im not sure that it will be a useful tool on getting things back on track.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:14:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Greenwald is advocating.... (2.00 / 1)

...going after McCain and the GOP. He really doesn't care too much about Palin, and frankly, neither do I.

(The veep's only mean as much as the unwarranted attention that we give them. This is just historical fact. Perhaps having a female on the ticket makes it a little different this year, but to even advocate in that regard is to make generalizations about women which, in and of themselves, is a sexist thing to do.)

The segment of the electorate affected by Palin's entry into the race--for the most part--is the neocon base...and, yes, some middle class and blue collar women. But, this latter group is very much affected by economic issues, as much as anything else. We haven't lost that demographic yet--completely, anyhow. But, we'll never get the neocons, so that's a given.


by bobswern on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:34:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: we? (none / 0)

I partly agree ... Obama spending too much talking about Palin will elevate her status in the view of undecided or swing voters ... McCain needs to remain his focus.  Biden can perhaps train more fire on her (e.g. on the credibility angle with abuse of power in troopergate, dishonesty in her claiming she never supported of the bridge to Nowhere, leaving the town of Wasilla with a net budget deficit after serving as mayor, the fact that a city administrator was hired under her term to help do the executive work despite the relatively small size of the city, etc).  Obviously, Palin is hard to hit too as she is newer on the national scene and there is little time before November.  The social conservative base has her back in a bigger way than they ever did for McCain.  If her "reformist" image can be muddied a bit (at least in the view of swing voters), the more effective tact is likely to keep attacking McCain in a manner that elicits his  temper (e.g. stay in Iraq for 100 years, voting against vet benefits) and makes an issue of his age.  This makes his number 2 pick more prominent ... and if we don't know much about her (and her putative positives raise doubts), voters might stay away from the more uncertain pick with the angry, old man at the top of the ticket.


by dilettante on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:29:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Palin should be an afterthought.... (none / 0)

she should be diminished by making her as unimportant as she truly is. We have no option now-the few days we could attack her are over-we let her get defined as a star, celebrity, maverick, reformer-now no good can come of focusing on her-we missed the boat again.

Obama needs to attack-I thought Biden was on Valium yesterday on MTP. He's supposed to be the attack dog-that's the VP role-Palin gets it-these Senators are not great at this-honestly, Clinton was much tougher. That was the reason I supported her-I just thought she was tougher and had a more realistic vision of what it would take to win. These guys want to be right and nice and civil-I just want to win! I keep sending money and all I hear is pablum-do any Dems know how to win a Presidential campaign?


berkshiretrueblue Commited to helping elect a Democrat as President "Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo" Ambroise Bierce
by berkshiretrueblue on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:45:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no. (2.00 / 4)

Angry negative may not work, but mockery will.  If you can't find something funny about John McCain being so rich that the thinks that undocumented workers make 50 dollars an hour, that anyone making less than 5 million a year is middle class, and not knowing how many houses he owns, then something's wrong.  That should be the entire theme of Obama's attacks on McCain - not just throwaway jokes.

And if you can't find Sarah Palin being so thoroughly corrupt funny, then you aren't looking hard enough.


by MeganLocke on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:17:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no. (none / 0)

Regardless of how funny we find it, it ain't working. The initial attacks on Palin were so offensive people have assumed the rest are just partisan BS. It would be like attacking McCain for his incontinence, who is going to take you seriously after that?

The houses attack was working, but Palin complicated it. Obama needs a new angle on McCain that is credible.


by souvarine on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:26:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no. (2.00 / 1)

Because McCain tried to make it about Palin's fucking kids, which NOBODY gave a shit about.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:27:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no. (none / 0)

It hasn't been tried outside of our echo chambers, so of course it's not working.


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:48:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No it won't (none / 0)

it only works if the media spins it our way. It will easily be spun as "Why is the mean old black guy beating up your grandpa and your mommy"


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:19:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No it won't (none / 0)

Okay, then we lose and there's nothing we can ever do about it.

Did anyone ever tell you you are a persistent downer?


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:47:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no. (none / 0)

The press STOPPED going hyper negative on Wednesday. They were going hypernegative on Palin from Friday until Wednesday, and who was ahead? Then the GOP went really negative all week, and what happened then?


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:26:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no. (none / 0)

Before that point, Obama was going hypernegative on McCain for his houses comment, and who was ahead then? The Democrats went full-court press negative on McCain ALL WEEK and who was ahead?

No, we GO NEGATIVE and do it as hard as we can. Stop listening to your conscience and watch what happens. It sucks, I know.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:29:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

who spoke about babies? (2.00 / 2)

you are conflating tabloid journalism with real responsible journalism. Find me a mainstream journalist who raised questions about babies, mommy wars etc (Enquirer, DailyKos does not count). Again only liberal blogs (TPM and Sullivan) mentioned Eagleton and rather prematurely. What the Republicans did was masterful they conflated the tabloids and blogs with responsible journalism and has fully exploited that and people like you have swallowed it. No one has defined Palin or McCain and the Democrats have done a poor job while the Republicans do not share such sensibilities.

Look we have differences in philosophy, you would rather lose than define your opponent and I would rather win because I cannot take 8 years more of the same failed policy and for that I want my candidate to do what it takes. If that makes me bad so be it.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:26:29 AM EST

Re: who spoke about babies? (none / 0)

Obama Surrogates Urged To Mention Eagleton

In memos, e-mails and phone calls this week, Obama campaign officials have urged surrogates and allies to mention Republicans who are "nervous" about the Palin pick and to link those worries to George McGovern's aborted vice presidential pick of Thomas Eagleton in 1972, according to three Democratic surrogates.

The Obama campaign's tactic was to make a joke of Palin and try to impeach McCain's judgement. It was a brain-dead move and it backfired. They think they can win this election on character, so they don't bother to build lines of attack around issues. They appear to have recognized that the babies gambit was radioactive, but that didn't prevent the McCain campaign from playing it for all it was worth.


by souvarine on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:55:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

its stunning how quickly forget - no? (none / 0)

also - i am extremely SAD to report the CBC (the canadian broadcasting corporation - funded by canadian taxpayers) also got onto the idiotic bandwagon.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:15:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Says who? (none / 0)

The Obama campaign's tactic was to make a joke of Palin and try to impeach McCain's judgement. It was a brain-dead move and it backfired.

These are valid concerns.  McCain did not properly vet her, and they are winging it now, trying to make the best of the situation.  Read Frank Rich's Sunday article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/opinio n/07rich.html?ref=opinion

As The New York Times reported last Tuesday, Palin was sloppily vetted, at best. McCain operatives and some of their press surrogates responded to this revelation by trying to discredit The Times article. After all, The Washington Post had cited McCain aides (including his campaign manager, Rick Davis) last weekend to assure us that Palin had a "full vetting process." She had been subjected to "an F.B.I. background check," we were told, and "the McCain camp had reviewed everything it could find on her."

The Times had it right. The McCain campaign's claims of a "full vetting process" for Palin were as much a lie as the biographical details they've invented for her. There was no F.B.I. background check. The Times found no evidence that a McCain representative spoke to anyone in the State Legislature or business community. Nor did anyone talk to the fired state public safety commissioner at the center of the Palin ethics investigation. No McCain researcher even bothered to consult the relevant back issues of the Wasilla paper. Apparently when McCain said in June that his vice presidential vetting process was basically "a Google," he wasn't joking.

This is a roll of the dice beyond even Bill Clinton's imagination. "Often my haste is a mistake," McCain conceded in his 2002 memoir, "but I live with the consequences without complaint." Well, maybe it's fine if he wants to live with the consequences, but what about his country? Should the unexamined Palin prove unfit to serve at the pinnacle of American power, it will be too late for the rest of us to complain.


by Dumbo on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Says who? (none / 0)

Says the polls, the backlash is spreading to women. Rich has no clue what is going on or how to win a general election.

Palin is a governor with over 80% approval ratings, she has a history of doing well in debates against far more experience politicians. She is very religious right wing.

Rather than go after her right-wing record the Obama campaign took McCain's bait and had it's surrogates try to turn her into a laughable choice. Very few people buy that line any longer, even Obama himself is trying to back away from it. The only way they could have made this mistake is if they were blinded by sexism, and blind to the damage this tactic would do Obama's support among women.


by souvarine on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:43:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What a bullshit interpretation. (none / 0)

I won't argue with the polls, but I will point out that this is the Sunday night (Monday morning, I guess) AFTER the RNC convention.  Not a good time to panic over a bump in the polls for the Republican candidate.  And not a good time to draw drastic conclusions.

But first, Obama hasn't had a lot of time to take a consistent position on Palin.  The Palin situation is still emerging.  We're finding out new things every day about this, and despite this poll, most of these things are rather unflattering to John McCain's vetting process.

As long as we don't make our own panic over Palin the story here, the media's vetting of Palin is going to be a top story for the week or two to come, at the very least, regardless of what the Obama campaign position is.


by Dumbo on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:16:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: who spoke about babies? (none / 0)

I am 100% positive that that Ambinder article was a complete bs.  Simply made up story to attach Obama's name to the speculation.  Read it again, and tell me where the specific information comes from.  And then look at the level of detail that his "source" gives about the reasoning behind the claim.  Read it with your eyes open; it's like something directly off Drudge.

The source was either a turncoat within the Obama campaign, a RNC operative planting the story for Ambinder to run with, or a complete fabrication.  My money's on 2, it wouldn't be the first time that Marc's carried their water.


by hello world on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:45:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: who spoke about babies? (none / 0)

I think you are watching a different election than the rest of us are.  If you're talking about how the initial attacks on Sarah Palin were so offensive and so over the top that it created a huge backlash, you're going to have to do better than an inside baseball article by Marc Ambider.

You're buying the Republican spin - next you're going to say "and Obama saying that Wasillia wasn't cosmopolitan enough for him was stupid too."


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:52:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

do you really want me to? (none / 0)

i will if you do.  however - i dont necessarily feel like hunting down the crap that was hurled at a GOP candidate - but assuredly it was there.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:17:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Please link it. (none / 0)

Because, the mainstream media did not raise questions.  Articles and news reports were made about DailyKos raising those questions, but they did not come out of the MSM directly.  The McCain campaign did an excellent job conflating NBC, ABC, FOX and CBS with anonymous left wing bloggers.


by shalca on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:45:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please link it. (none / 0)

"They" is such a useful word.


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:03:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please link it. (none / 0)

"They" is referred to in the post to which I and Canadiangal are responding.  In the event that you are too lazy to scroll up, "they" refers to 'questions about babies, mommy wars etc.'


by shalca on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:11:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please link it. (none / 0)

Easy - you misunderstand.  "They" was in response to this:

The McCain campaign did an excellent job conflating NBC, ABC, FOX and CBS with anonymous left wing bloggers.

Who said she was a bad mother?  "They" did.  Works best if you were just talking about the media and/or the Obama campaign.


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:17:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry about that. (none / 0)

I'm hyped up because of all the negativism about Obama's chances this week.


by shalca on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:40:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please link it. (none / 0)

she can't. This entire GOP talking point of sexism is directed at people like her and because of that the journalists cannot ask any tough questions.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:56:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

okay... (none / 0)

i remember this game from the primary - make the person spend lots of time digging up proof.  then argue with facts when provided.  since i have no interest in arguing over smears on a GOP - i will instead provide this factcheck.org link for you and tarheel.  included in it is various smears that we have all heard on blogs, in the media etc.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: okay... (none / 0)

nothing on FactCheck supports your claim that mainstream journalists made outrageous reports about her baby, family etc.  The Fact Check site looks at 4 claims. We can dispute it because I happen to think on 2 of them they are wrong. But again no claims about family or babies or motherhood etc. Oh and as for the "smears" on FactCheck,

1. I happen to know for certain she cut funds to special needs schools for disabled children by 62% (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adrienne-w illiams/palin-gutted-special-ed-f_b_1237 74.html). I suggest red the pdf files.

2. Maybe Palin was not a member of AIP but she was closely associated with them. Her husband was a member and in a year when Republicans have openly questioned Obama's patriotism I think this is a very legitimate question. Follow this link to a video of the AIP committee praising Palin (http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/9/1/20445 1/1700#commenttop)

3. As far as the book ban goes that charge was made by a resident of Wassilla. So that was not a smear. There is no written record but that claim has not been disproved.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

see what you did there? (none / 0)

you are ARGUING over factcheck.org and comparing it to....  drumroll please - huffingtonpost.

listen - i will not longer argue with you about this - i dont agree with you and clearly you dont agree with me.  so here i will in my last response on this topic - provide the following things that have or will backfire on the dems, for your reference:

here

here

here

here

here

here

here

there's more - but you have google too you know.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:55:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: see what you did there? (none / 0)

I hate to break this you are conflating tabloid and internet rumor-mongering with legitimate questions.
Did some mainstream journalists question GOP hypocrisy on Palin? Yes they did, because she was being manipulative. Even Jeralyn Merritt and Taylor Marsh, who have been two of the most vocal supporters of Hillary, and Jeralyn who had gone so far as to ban any personal comments directed against Sarah Palin on her blog, found this parading of her pregnant teenage daughter and her boyfriend on primetime TV and have them pose for photo-ops with John McCain  to be cynical manipulation. You cannot say "hands off" and then throw them into the spotlight, that is using your daughter as a prop for you political career. That is wrong and manipulative.
But you belong to that group of people who would consider any questions asked of her as a "smear". That is bullshit. You have not been able to give me a single instance of a mainstream journalist using sexist terms or smearing her family. NOT ONE. All you did was regurgitate Republican spin here. If this the what former "Hillary supporters" have been reduced to, seeing sexism and misogyny in questioning the qualification and credibility of a person who is being cynical and manipulative, then sorry this kind of "feminism" we can do without. Because this is not standing up for a women or a woman candidate but repeating or rather uncritically regurgitating Republican spin. I guess Sarah Palin and the spin surrounding her was aimed at people like you.
by tarheel74 on Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 11:24:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do you really want me to? (none / 0)

yes I do want you to because in all seriousness you cannot.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:57:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Anyone read the stupid puff piece on Palin today? (none / 0)


by iamold on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:38:44 AM EST

McCain's age needs to become a press issue (2.00 / 2)

McCain's campaign needs to be on their heels defending their candidate's ability to energetically lead the country from age 72 to 76.  The Obama campaign can raise this issue somewhat indirectly by going after McCain's adoption of the change mantra - e.g.

"How does Senator McCain, who at age 72 has already spent 26 years in Washington, propose to be an agent of change over the next 4 years?   Senator McCain who has agreed with President Bush on over 90% of legislation these past 8 years, who suggested committing American troops in Iraq for the next 100 years, and who is just learning about the internet - now after 26 years of contributing to Washington as it is now, admits Washington is broken"  cut to the famous green screen video in which he looks very old and tired ... finishing with McCain's own words "Now, that's not change you can believe in."

Axelrod has been way too indirect at raising the issue of age, seemingly relying on the broader indictment of McCain's judgment from which one inference can be the age concern.  However if they go at it more directly, the Republicans will scream bloody murder and help solidify his age as an issue.  This helps in numerous ways. It reinforces the concerns about his judgment if he is losing acuity and it makes Palin's qualifications more of an issue as it reminds voters that McCain is no spring chicken.

A side point on how concerns on his health/aging can be pursued once there is more vigorous discussion, we've already heard that McCain relies on Ambien to get rest some nights (Google will find an ABC story on this).  If they admit to some use, it is likely to be more.  So when that 3 am call comes in, a President McCain might already be medically incapacitated.  In this circumstance, will Palin be stepping in?

Finally if there are concerns about turning off senior voters by adopting this tactic (who are actually much more savvy than people seem to give them credit for, and likely have greater concerns about the effectiveness of a 72-76 yr old President than the larger population), contrast the Republican position on social security to that of the Democratic party.  We all know how the Republicans hate this as it is an effective wedge and a volatile issue with voters for them.  Commercials on this point are easy too, e.g. "At age 72, John McCain earns $X thousand dollars a year as a US senator so may not have the same concerns that millions of Americans who are retired in their 70's do.  In fact, he has voted ...".  One keeps the topic of his age in the news, attacks McCain's voting record, but also appeals to those older voters concerned about the sanctity of social security.

We will likely have the age issue raised just prior to the debates by political talking heads pontificating on what contrasts to look for, but the McCain campaign will make every effort to see that their candidate is rested and appearing energetic on debate nights.  While there could be a slip up by McCain that allows the media or Obama campaign to more forcefully pursue the age issue, it seems silly to rely on this.  Bring it up now, bring it up early, and let the McCain campaign spend time on it.


by dilettante on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:02:06 AM EST

he shoulda picked hillary..... (1.75 / 4)

how dumb can you be? choosing a guy that got what... 70,000 votes? vs. a WOMAN that got 18 million votes..

Obama is denying the Democratic Party and women democrats the opportunity that McCain offers Republican women...

To make history with the first woman Vice President..

and we know OUR female VP is a million times better than theirs....

BIG BIG MISTAKE FOR OBAMA....

His first BIG decision and he FAILED.


by nikkid on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:03:57 AM EST

he did fail (none / 0)

He assumed people actually cared about issues instead of anatomy.  Giving the voters too much credit is his biggest flaw.


by JJE on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:20:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he did fail (none / 0)

Unfortunate but true, people care about anatomy, skin color, religion, looks, and etc. It's a real bummer, ...dude.


by Check077 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:03:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

shut up (2.00 / 3)

he's doing fine with women Democrats. This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. Women Republicans wouldn't vote for Hillary anyway.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:21:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If Hillary had won, (2.00 / 1)

McCain would have picked a black running-mate who was PRO-LIFE and PRO-WAR.  Same thing.

McCain's running-mate isn't our problem.  It's his, and we need to demonstrate that.


by Dumbo on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:43:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Hillary had won, (2.00 / 2)

Except that black voters are fairly cohesive, and consequently more sophisticated than the average voter.  If the Republicans did that, it would be to give WHITE voters the option of making history with their team - black voters wouldn't be fooled.  Republicans pull this shit with them all the time - Clarence Thomas was a running joke in the AA community from the word go.

But he made that statement about a "high-tech lynching" and white politicians quailed.  I think what's going on now has more in common with that then people think.


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:57:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Hillary had won, (none / 0)

hmmmm...
My apologies for belonging to any group lacking sophistication.

Anyhoots; Sourdough Sarah at the helm? In my dreams; that's worser than any nightmares I've had about George of the Bungle, and he still scares the shirt outta' me.


I told my psychiatrist: "everyone hates me". He said I was being ridiculous..."everyone hasn't met you yet" - Rodney D.
by bullshipper on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:09:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that nickname is too good (none / 0)

heehee!!
Sour? dough???  hahahahahahaha!! Only too fitting for the way the 'pugs do biz par usual.

"How do you intend to pay for this bridge?"
"With sourdough, of course."


I told my psychiatrist: "everyone hates me". He said I was being ridiculous..."everyone hasn't met you yet" - Rodney D.
by bullshipper on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:16:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bitter much. . . (none / 0)

It really is time to move on and join us in the current debate.  The Hillary debate ended some time ago.


by shalca on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:47:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he shoulda picked hillary..... (none / 0)

Speaking of BIG mistakes, people voting for McCain/Schlafly are going to have to come to terms with the fact that their advice isn't going to be held in much esteem.


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:09:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he shoulda picked hillary..... (none / 0)

"choosing a guy that got what... 70,000 votes?"

He's put that many people, or more, out on the streets with his bankruptcy bill vote!

The Democrats ability to lose in the face of no way that they could would be funny were it not so tragic to the country/world.


by reggie44pride on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:49:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he shoulda picked hillary..... (none / 0)

For reference, this is CW numbers 3 and 6.


I am not a crook!
by username on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:19:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he shoulda picked hillary..... (none / 0)

Failed? Nope. Courageous decision about who would be best to govern the nation with, not who made the most electoral sense. Courageous.  Take of the blinders.


I will wear my heart upon my sleeve For daws to peck at
by Iago on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"as of right now things look bleak." (none / 0)

No.  They don't.

I appreciate your sentiment that we need to go negative and fight back, and I applaud that, the fact remains that there is no justification for this kind of language.

Go read what some of the Republicans are saying about THEIR candidates.  To THEM, it looks bleak.  But the truth is in-between.

McCain got a bounce from the convention.  It may even be bigger than ours.  But we have talked about this before, and knew that was coming, and it's not a good idea to get panicky when things go as you expected.

Sarah Palin is a mixed bag, with plusses and minuses.  Plusses -- she made a decent first impression and McCain got a boost out of the RNC convention.  Negatives -- she is turning very quickly into a tabloid magazine freak show.  We may not want to go there, and we don't even HAVE to go there -- that's just a fact.

So don't let this USA/Gallup poll spook you.  We have predicted this countless times -- that McCain would be ahead after his convention.  So now he is.  Now we fight back.

And don't OVERestimate Sarah Palin, which is the real danger here, not that people will UNDERestimate her.  I predict that she's a long-term (60 days) weakness.  We would like to win this election on the basis of the screwed up war and economy, but inasmuch as the Republicans throw gifts like this to us, we are fools not to take advantage of them as we can.


by Dumbo on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:17:21 AM EST

No (2.00 / 1)

I decided to come home in October and spend a month working for Obama...even though the election may be our of reach by then.

Look, I've talked to people this weekend, the same people who assured me everything was fine a month ago. I've talked to pollsters I know at home in New York and professors I had who are on the inside. They all agree, right now, the election is lost for Obama unless something changes.

As far as the Republicans, they've been reinvigorated since Wednesday.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:23:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No (2.00 / 1)

Well, if the election were held today, yeah... what do you mean by, "something changes?"

...and just as I was relaxed enough to go to bed, I read your comment and get all worked up again!

Plouffe and Axelrod claim confidence... I know they get paid to do so, but I am going to have to believe they have something up their sleeve or I won't sleep until November....


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:40:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Look (none / 0)

My brother works on the campaign in Virginia and one of my old college professors is close to high ranking officials in the Obama campaign.

My brother tells me that morale is down massively in the campaign office since Palin and he described the higher ups as "in complete disarray" and trying to hide it from the volunteers and staff. Hopefully things will turn around before I get there in October, but my brother was the one who used to slap me and scream "Snap out of it" when I would get concerned, now he's downright distraught over this whole election.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:47:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Look (none / 0)

Thanks for the update...  I remember the Ohio offices feeling the same way during the primary...  Sad to hear, but not unexpected, really....

I want to hear form Plouffe and Axelrod.... I know they are paid to be positive, but I want to hear what they have to say...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:32:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dude, Nrafter... (2.00 / 1)

I love you, but GET A SPINE.

When I was trading commodity futures, one of the first lessons they taught us was that people sell in a panic at the BOTTOM of a market, not at the top.  Part of being a successful trader is the ability to be pessimistic at the top, when everybody sees blue skies, and optimistic at the bottom, when everybody is ready to jump out of a building.

We KNEW that McCain was going to do well coming out of the RNC convention.  I predicted in multiple posts that he would be ahead coming out of it.  And, voila, we have ONE poll showing him ahead, and it's on the Sunday after the RNC convention, and...  it's all over???

No.  It's not.  


by Dumbo on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:01:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dumbo (none / 0)

we had said that McCain's bounce post convention would tell us what his watermark was. Obama's was 50%...McCain's is 54%. That means McCain could conceivable win 54% of the vote. That would be a landslide.

Unless he's put away soon, McCain can win this thing in a landslide. It's clear that the majority in this country don't mind voting for him.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:42:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama was never allowed (none / 0)

to set a watermark.  The first three days of the DNC convention were filled with Clinton nostalgia rather than Obama-building.  Obama hit it out of the ballpark on Thursday, but before the next morning, McCain was stepping on that with the Palin announcement.  Obama had no time to set that high watermark in order to compare apples and oranges.

I'm not trying to make excuses here.  I'm pointing out that you are prematurely panicking.  And it's a real bummer, for me, personally, to read this.  I was feeling pretty good about things, bad as the poll was, until I came here yesterday and saw all this shit.

The fundamentals are so bad for the McCain campaign that we can take a hit like this and still be at the very least competitive, and I say "competitive" only to put this in a pessimistic light for comparison's sake.  The Republicans have had to live with bad poll numbers for most of the year, but it didn't kill them off.


by Dumbo on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No (2.00 / 1)

Palin was a game changer and McCain caught the Dems with their pants around their ankles like Larry Craig with the pick.


by reggie44pride on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:50:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm unrecommending this diary. (2.00 / 0)

No offense to Tarheel, but this is not what I want to see on the rec list.

I'm amazed.  I have been hanging out on gamer forums that last week and reading all the posts beating up on Sarah Palin by people who are not usually politically involved, who see the whole thing as another Britney experience to be blabbed about.  And then I come here, and see people panicking about one lousy poll.  Go negative I'm in favor of.  "or start drafting your concession speech..." I can do without that language.


by Dumbo on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:29:11 AM EST

Re: I'm unrecommending this diary. (none / 0)

don't tell me, tell that to the Obama campaign who right now is not inspiring any confidence. I just to one of friends today who was an outspoken Obama supporter from the very beginning and his first question was "do you think we will lose this election?" Things are not very upbeat now. If people stay in denial we will lose.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:00:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's possible (2.00 / 1)

to wage a "negative" campaign against an opponent that doesn't resort to lies and distortions.

The republicans have no problem campaigning with lies, distortions, manipulation, and demagoguery. Their strengh is their pure will to power, by any means necessary.

By and large, as a Democrat, I'm loathe to win through lies. The truth is damning enough for the republican party. So I'm all for taking it to McPalin in the strongest possible terms. I just want to be sure it's honest.

The polls have been swinging wildly all summer. The bounce McCain is getting is due to the religionists coming back into his camp and a short-term product of the media hype surrounding Palin. My guess is Obama's campaign expected numbers like this eventually -- and it's a good thing, because it gives a more realistic picture of the fight ahead.

Now that we know what they have in their hand, we can take the fight to them. State polling, not national polling, is going to be crucial. OUr candidates, along with our surrogates, should be hitting the road tomorrow and hitting McPalin straight on: The Maverick is a myth, and his Reformer running mate is too extreme for America.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:55:23 AM EST

Re: It's possible (none / 0)

the fact is there is no reason to lie but there is every reason to put out all the stuff out there in a way that challenges the credibility of the McCain-Palin ticket. But is the Obama campaign doing it? NO.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:01:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

We Don't Know What They Have (none / 0)

in their hand.
One big card- Palin for VP- has been played.

We do know that Repubs are still holding another biggie- the power (and willingness) of the Bush presidency to "wag the dog" between now and Nov. 4.  Does anyone doubt they wouldn't use it in some form if they thought it would put them over in a close race?

What other wild cards do they have? Obviously unknown. Example: a Powell endorsement? (though I don't really believe that would have a great deal of strength). What others?

What big cards do Dems have?  Money? That's a positive, but we know it has to be used effectively, and, even then, is not a surefire antidote to the poison that can be put out there by the MSM and the Repug. campaign.

Respected Dem. leaders?  Let them speak effectively for Dem. principles the next eight weeks, including the Congressional session starting today.  Have them accomplish something during this short session, and speak out with answers, not just rhetoric, on the issues people want to hear about- Social Security, healthcare- and on the issues people fear- immigration, job loss/employment, deflation/inflation.  Let's see some real leadership and maybe we won't be wringing our hands and feeling powerless against the full deck being flaunted against us.


by susie on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Either go negative (none / 0)

Tarheel74: Yes, you're right.  You Hillary people are a fairly astute bunch - I think it's because the ones who ended up supporting Obama were the smart ones.

But I think it's early for panic and despair - their convention JUST ended.  They're supposed to get a bounce out of it.


by Jordache on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:01:07 AM EST

Re: Either go negative (none / 0)

" They're supposed to get a bounce out of it."

Right.

10-17 point bounces are completely normal.


by reggie44pride on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:51:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Either go negative (none / 0)

10-17 points is not a bounce, it is a turnaround, it is switching tables. Obama got a 4-6 point bounce. If McCain got a similar bounce and tied the race or taken 1-2 point lead I would say that is normal. A 17 point turnaround is worrisome, wake up and smell the coffee. Till date Obama has not been able to win a single news cycle. That is worrisome. He has to grab the initiative and start drawing the attention. Right now they are grasping at straws and playing defense.


by tarheel74 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:04:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Either go negative (none / 0)

McCain had less than solid support from the republicans (and barely any from evangelicals), until he picked Palin. He isn't drawing independents (except perhaps for recently reregistered repub/independents) or wavering Democrats to his side, his base is solidifying.
I agree we need to go negative, especially since Rick Davis is running around telling the press they're not getting any interviews with Palin until they promise to be nice little boys and girls.
I'm wondering if anyone thinks we need to throw the "kitchen sink" at the republicans or use the "scorched earth" campaign that Hillary was so often denigrated for in the primaries?
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 07:12:22 AM EST

Scorched earth and the kitchen sink (none / 0)

That would be a start. Then drop a mountain on them. Or maybe a small planet.


See how Saxby Chambliss is helping you!
by Spiffarino on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:35:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How About Forceful vice Negative (none / 0)

In Virginia, McCain has the new ads running that portray an Obama administration as one that will levy "painful" new taxes, cause runaway deficits, etc. Negative and direct.

The Obama ad shows McCain riding in the golf cart with Bush Sr, with the announcer comparing how McCain with his 7 houses views the economy vice an ordinary couple. Not as crisp as McCain's.

What I advocate is: forget these surrogates. Have Barack do an "in your face" ad where he says something like: "You know those ads where McCain says I'm going to levy painful new taxes? Well, that's a LIE! My plan calls for tax relief for the middle class, not more tax cuts for the wealthy like McCain wants. And the soaring deficits, like the ones championed by Bush/McCain? Another LIE!  .... etc."

Enough of this subtle stuff -- time to hit hard!


by Bob Miller on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:31:01 AM EST

Sure, go negative... (none / 0)

And then remind everyone how his campaign isn't the "same old politics" he eschews publicly.  It is a bit of a quandary.